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Ringo Apple
Sep 26, 2017

Product2b within 18 months?

21 comments

By october only 30 rev 1 will be out and it is stated that the rest (could be the rest of rev 1) will be out over a period of "Months". Could take 2 to 3 months for rev 1 to complete and another 2 to 3 months for rev 2 and 4 to 5 months for rev 3 to complete at this pace I assume. Basically I think the last rev 3 pre-order fella will be getting his glasses earliest by middle of next year (correct me if I am wrong). If that is the case, there is only a short interval between beta/beta bold and product2b, which is kinda weird.

 

The weirder part is, the update mentioned Product2b lenses have already begun manufacturing. What about beta and beta bold? are those scrapped?

 

I don't understand why the rush. Should have focused on delivering alpha, chill about a year only begin talking about beta/beta bold.

Adam DB
Sep 26, 2017

As I read it, Product2b is basically a Snapglass-competitor; camera-centric sunglasses that are not dependant on facial geometry or visual acuity - sounds like it... Which would make them A LOT easier to produce, so it makes sense for them to develop alongside the Shimas and ship earlier, and would serve as a test run for the production of the Shimas...

 

I doubt the shift from rev 1 to rev 2 and on to rev 3 will take respectively longer; quite the opposite, in fact. I'd guess the first rev 1 glasses will land late October, with the remaining trickling out at an increasing pace through November and December. Rev 2 could be out in January, and rev 3 as early as February or March. With development on the Beta units being closely tied to the Alphas, I'm still expecting the Betas to launch summer 2018... Remember the Alphas are basically test units, paving the way for the real product, the Betas.

Ringo Apple
Sep 26, 2017

@Adam

No offense but I think it would be best if there is an official staff clarify on the estimated time rather than accepting guesstimates as an answer here.

 

The thing that is bothering me about the recent updates are :

 

1) Isn't Product2B the final consumer version of the Shima eyewear? Why is the lens production for product2b is about to begin when Alpha stage hasn't even completed yet, let alone feedback/testing stage for Beta & BetaBold. Am I missing something here? Or does the Product2B refers to the free prescription glass, which makes a bit more sense.

 

2) Laforge is giving free normal glasses for those who are in need of prescription glasses urgently. By the looks of it, there is a possibility that Alpha phase may take a long time. I really need Corey to at least tell us when will the last alpha rev 3 will be shipped out. An estimated time at least, otherwise we are still in limbo, wondering the days the glass would come.

 

Laforge prides itself to be a company that brings the clients/customers along the journey of developing the product. However, the more I read along the way, the more confusing it gets. Why can't Laforge just stick with completing Alpha then move on to beta before moving on to betabold and finally through all the feedback and input comes out with the final product2b consumer version, 1 step at a time instead of talking about product2b and producing it even before Alpha rev 1 started shipping.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Josh Quillin [Mod]
Sep 26, 2017

"Product2B" is a placeholder name for the product coming after Shima. It is not Shima. There's no change in plans for the Revs and Betas. As soon as I hear any more time estimates, I'll be happy to share here!

Ringo Apple
Sep 26, 2017

@Yo Josh, you have been quiet for quite some time, where did you go?

Josh Quillin [Mod]
Sep 26, 2017

Haven't had anything to contribute. I read notifications as they come in, but I dislike making frivolous posts like "That sounds cool", "Wait and see", and "I don't know yet". Just about everything posted in the last few months have been like that. Cool sounding ideas and unknowable questions about the future. I'm excited to see things moving again from a buyer perspective, and we're getting the next rounds of focus groups fleshed out.

Adam DB
Sep 26, 2017

@ Ringo Apple

 

No offense taken, lol...! It's true I'm just guesstimating, but likely so would Corey be, if he tried to specify release dates. You often can't get exact dates from large companies like Apple or Microsoft, so you can't expect a small start-up to have a precisely planned release schedule...

 

As for the Product2b, it's obviously not the same as the Shima, as specified by Josh. It doesn't sound like it's coming "after the Shima", though; sounds more like a less complicated product, that might comes sooner, piggyback riding on the lessons learned from the Shima development.

Ringo Apple
Sep 26, 2017

@Josh, I do hope you could stir up the forum as a buyer, this place is like a ghost town. Hardly anyone starts any posts in here.

 

@Adam, well if Corey did specify a date, I do hope he would give more buffer to it. For example, if he estimate the delivery would be on January then just say March, it's always better to under promise and over deliver than the other way round. I'm not saying the product2b is Shima (it doesn't really matter anyway) but Corey did mentioned the product2b is a final consumer version to hit the store, that is the reason why I am shock that he talks about working on product2b in the update when Alpha has barely started. It's always better to takes thing slow, go step by step but in this case it seems that the update is always about rushing to the end product while the starting phase is as slow as snail.

Adam DB
Sep 26, 2017

@ Ringo Apple You know how it is with dates; even if you expressly state that it's only indicative, people will take it as set in stone... A lose-lose situation. Again, I think the Product2be will, be simpler version of the Shima glasses, similar to the Snapglasses. It'll take much less time to develop, and will give some feedback about the physical shape of the glasses, since it's seemingly built on the same frame as the Shima. It probably doesn't impact the production schedule of the Shima at all...

 

I for one am thrilled at the prospect of getting a non-smart set of (sunglass-type!) Shimas to try on, if for no other reason than to test out the shape and design on my face!

Corey | Founder |
Sep 28, 2017Edited: Sep 29, 2017

Let me clarify some things:

1. Product2B is not a replacement for anything. It is a separate prodcut based on Shima that is easier to build and one that I had been putting of for years. The concept for what became Shima and Product2B were invented at the same time. Product2B is essentially a gateway product for our suppliers and future potential partners to work together on. To put it another way, the two will be produced at the same and will share a lot of components.

2. Do not extrapolate or read between the lines about timing between alpha, beta, and beta bold. I am doing my best to let people know that we will ship them whatever we have available when it is available. It is difficult to describe to people which exact version they will be getting when we have so many things close to done and are working feverishly to integrate final production parts into alpha and beta.

3. As I have stated before alpha is more "inward looking" in that we need to get some things confirmed for our satisfaction (fit, finish, acuity and focus of optics). Beta is more "outward looking" where we will be getting things confirmed for customer satisfaction (accuracy of fit, quick bluetooth pairing times, more frame styles & colors, and integration with more apps).

 

Ringo Apple
Sep 29, 2017Edited: Sep 29, 2017

@Corey,

1. I don't get it, isn't product2b just meant the consumer version? What is the difference between Beta Bold and Product2b? If product2b share a lot of components and produced at the same time, what is the point of getting BetaBold instead of product2b?

 

2. On laforge official page, it says ships 2017 on Alpha pre-order, why does it imply that way knowingly the backers won't be able to get it by 2017?

 

 

You really need to give us an update on when can we expect to receive the glasses. An indefinite wait is not an answer.

Paul Padilla
Sep 29, 2017

No, product2b is not "just... the consumer version." It is a completely different product which simply has some components similar to the Shima (which is the final consumer version). There's no reason people can't get both of them (as I'm sure Corey would to have people do).

 

It's like the difference between a fitbit and a smartwatch or a bicycle and a motorcycle. Corey's just making the Shima and product2b at the same time, and using lessons learned from making the more complex product (Shima) to help development of product2b.

 

As to the shipment information, the Rev 1 units *are* shipping in 2017 - people will start getting it in October or maybe November depending on how long delivery takes. We understand that there is a queue and that there will need to be some time between the different Rev models and that not everyone will get it in 2017. That's ok, it's an alpha and there are expected to be delays. This is still going a lot faster than some other alphas I've seen. Corey is being as open as he can about expectations for later shipments. It is likely that Corey doesn't know when, exactly, the later units will be able to be sent out - that depends a lot on several factors, such as how quickly he can ramp up production of the lenses (a project that was projected on taking a couple of months from whenever he starts it), what the limit on production (without sacrificing quality) ends up being, and how long it takes for those who receive earlier versions to respond on any issues or offer suggestions for improvements. Whenever he has more information, it will be shared.

Adam DB
Sep 29, 2017

@Ringo Apple

Product2B is A consumer product; not the Shima consumer product. As for a difference, Corey will likely keep his cards close - all we know is that Product2B won't be as reliant on personalization as the Shimas, leading me to guess at a Snapglass competitor. It probably shares the frame and camera unit with the Shima, but will not feature any viewable display, so they're not really in the same league.

Corey | Founder |
Sep 29, 2017

I think we've explained product2B backwards and forwards at this point.

Ringo Apple
Oct 1, 2017

So uhm... is there any announcement for when the alphas will be delivered? Rev 3 etc..

Adam DB
Oct 1, 2017

Ringo, I doubt you'll see more until the October/November update or you hear from them personally.

 

It's been a mere week since they posted the latest update, which started with these words: "We will reach out to the first 30 or so pre-order customers in October"...

Ringo Apple
Oct 2, 2017

Adam, I do wish Corey would at least let us have an estimate time. Otherwise, it could be another half a year or a year wait...or even 2019 for all it is worth.

Adam DB
Oct 3, 2017

Ringo, I'd like a fixed date as much as anyone, but you know that if they can't manage the deadline, all hell will be loose... Besides, it's better that they're not constrained by some arbitrary date, so they won't rush anything.

 

You'd save a lot of lost sleep by just taking a conservative approach, and assume that rev. 3 won't be out untill late winter/early spring... If it arrives earlier you'll have a pleasant surprise!

Ringo Apple
Oct 3, 2017

Adam, it doesn't need to be a fixed date but it should be within weeks or at most a few months extra from the estimated date. Otherwise, it could be half a year, a year or even late 2019 if Laforge is not committed to anything.

 

I think what I am about to say would represent the majority. Since this is only Alpha and we are getting free beta bold, I want them to rush it instead of treating it like it is the final product. I bet most of us backers here would want that as well since we are getting the beta bold for free, it doesn't matter if Alpha isn't perfect or working half-ass, as long as it some what works. To me, the logic behind this is that I want to try out the tech that I invested in as soon as possible. Laforge says that this is a bleeding edge tech but in reality it is getting stale if it drag on too long. There are already competitors out there coming out with "casual smart glasses" like Alpha Labs and other Asian countries (Japan is coming out with similar concept but it is in Japanese so no point for me to invest in that). Alpha labs is releasing their glasses early next year and the only reason why I am not backing them despite them already had first look and demos in the market because theirs is so much bulkier and aesthetic wise would make a person look like a geek. Beside, I already waited so long with Laforge, the thought of backing out now felt like I've waited for nothing ($610 is not a lot but time value of money dictates actual loss in value over 1 year period since I invested.)

 

P/S : Alpha lab's glasses has camera on it and it looks weird as hell. I hope the Beta Bold some how could make the camera look inconspicuous, otherwise, people on the street would thought you are some kind of stalker.

Ringo Apple
Oct 4, 2017

@Adam, the project is still ongoing. I think it would be like Laforge, independent from kickstarter/indiegogo. I'm not that surprise that they din't do well on kickstarter because there are too many scam lately.

 

Blatant scam - Backzips (took backers money and ran away)

Product scam - Batband (Promise a ton but deliver nothing, most suspected it ain't even bone conduction but 2 mini speaker.. a real disaster). Same goes for Zungle.

Other bullshit scam - Those that promise you being able to control lucid dream etc. turns out to be full of shit that does nothing practical.

 

Kickstarter/Indiegogo have become a platform for scammers rather than inventors/entrepreneurs. The only successful product came out of these funding sites is the Oculus Rift. One funny thing about this is that Oculus Rift did not delay too long from estimate deliver date, even though they are coming out a bleeding edge tech for the gaming world. Whereas, Backzips & Batband which delayed as long as 2 years turned out to be scammers. This the reason why people these days are so afraid whenever fund raising company delay over and over.

 

 

 

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